Ep4 (full episode) -- Long COVID Loss of Smell, Cancer, Ulcers, HOCI -- Dental Revolution: Biohacking the Mouth/Body Connection SEASON1
In this compelling case study, we explore the profound connection between oral hygiene, the microbiome, and systemic health through the journey of Lucy, a 59-year-old patient from Toronto. After suffering from long COVID (which caused a total loss of taste and smell), bleeding gums, a coated tongue, and relying on daily antacids for 13 years to manage a gastric ulcer, Lucy’s overall health and quality of life were significantly compromised.
Through a series of advanced oral diagnostics—including a Bristle DNA oral health test, a Perio Monitor leukocyte test for inflammation, and Nitric Oxide (NO) salivary strips—we discovered a highly pathogenic oral microbiome and dangerously low Nitric Oxide levels. Nitric Oxide is a crucial signaling molecule and vasodilator necessary for cardiovascular health. Interestingly, the human body relies heavily on healthy mouth bacteria and sufficient stomach acid to properly synthesize NO from the foods we eat.
To combat her oral dysbiosis, we implemented a targeted "Weed, Plant, and Feed" protocol. By aggressively reducing pathogenic bacteria with Hypochlorous Acid (HOCl) rinses and daily tongue scraping, and subsequently repopulating her microbiome with targeted oral probiotics, Lucy saw life-changing results in just three months. Her sense of taste and smell miraculously returned, her gums stopped bleeding, her breath improved, and her Nitric Oxide levels stabilized. However, her journey also highlights a stark warning: a brief period of using standard alcohol-based mouthwash temporarily wiped out her progress, proving just how delicate and essential the oral microbiome truly is.
Finally, the episode uncovers a critical systemic link: Lucy's 13-year use of Pantoprazole (a proton pump inhibitor) severely reduced her stomach acid, hindering her body's final step in Nitric Oxide production. We discuss why traditional mouthwashes can be harmful, the biological importance of stomach acid, and why an undiagnosed sleep disorder like sleep apnea might actually be the hidden root cause of chronic acid reflux.
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K E Y T A K E A W A Y S & P R O T O C O L
THE NITRIC OXIDE PATHWAY
Healthy oral bacteria are absolutely essential for converting nitrates from our diet (found in foods like beets and leafy greens) into nitrites. When swallowed, stomach acid converts these nitrites into Nitric Oxide, which dilates blood vessels, reduces inflammation, and protects cardiovascular health.
The "Weed, Plant, Feed" ProtocolRestoring oral health requires a three-pronged approach
WEED
Eliminate bad bacteria hiding in tongue biofilm and deep gum pockets using mechanical cleaning (tongue scraping, flossing) and safe chemical rinses like Hypochlorous Acid (HOCl).
PLANT & FEED
Reintroduce beneficial bacteria using oral probiotics and nourish them with prebiotics to restore a healthy microbiome balance.
THE DANGER OF TRADITIONAL MOUTHWASH
Lucy noticed through daily testing that using standard alcohol-based mouthwashes completely decimated her Nitric Oxide levels, effectively killing off the good commensal bacteria required for her vascular health.
THE ANTACID DILEMMA
Long-term use of antacids lowers stomach acid, which breaks the final chain of Nitric Oxide production in the gut. Adding a simple remedy like a spoonful of apple cider vinegar before meals can help introduce the necessary acidity to complete this chemical conversion.
THE SLEEP APNEA / ACID REFLUX CONNECTION
Chronic acid reflux often has a surprising root cause: sleep disorders. Snoring and sleep apnea create negative pressure in the airway, which can physically suck stomach acid up into the esophagus. A sleep study is highly recommended for chronic acid reflux sufferers.
RAPID HEALING IS POSSIBLE
With the right diagnostic tools and a targeted, microbiome-friendly oral care routine, severe symptoms like bleeding gums, inflammation, and even long COVID-induced anosmia (loss of smell and taste) can see dramatic improvements in a matter of months.
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DR JANICE R. GOODMAN TORONTO DENTAL OFFICE
https://dentistryintoronto.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/janice-r-goodman-hocldentist/
Transcript
Lucy is a 59-year-old who lives in Toronto. She's been my patient since April 2025. Her medical history, 2012, gastric ulcer, treating it with daily antacids for the past 13 years. 2024 to present, long COVID, inability to smell or taste. 2024, hysterectomy to treat stage one cancer. 2025 started with me presenting bleeding gums and coated tongue.
The first test was a Bristle DNA oral health test to qualify and quantify microbiomes in her mouth. A lot of Lucy's bacteria readings were good, but there were three major areas of concern: nitric oxide, microbes that contribute to gum inflammation, and halitosis, bad breath. The next test was the Perio Monitor, a saliva test measuring leukocyte activity. This showed a moderate level of inflammation. The third test was the nitric oxide saliva test. This showed her to be low in nitric oxide.
Nitric oxide is an important gas produced in many places in the body, including in the mouth. It's a vasodilator and signaling molecule in the body. In order to have a healthy supply of nitric oxide in your body, you need specific mouth bacteria, a fairly clean tongue, lots of saliva, an acid stomach, and a diet that includes foods that are high in nitrates, such as beetroots and leafy greens. HOCl helps keep nitric oxide levels healthy by helping balance the microbiome and protect the good bacteria in the mouth and tongue.
In August 2025, we started Lucy on a 3-month course of daily HOCl oral swishing to reduce the threat from dangerous bacteria in the mouth. Tongue scraping to reduce the coating on her tongue was an important part of this protocol. We got her to suck on nitric oxide lozenges as a prebiotic to improve her microbiome and oral nitric oxide production.
I'm delighted to report that after 3 months we saw some return of taste and smell, a reduction in the inflammation in her mouth, elevation of her nitric oxide production, less coating on her tongue, no more bleeding gums, and better breath. We're going to do two tests. Okay. Uh according to your Bristle Salivary Test results, you should have some inflammation in your mouth. So, the way we measure it is by nothing the amount of leukocyte activity in your mouth. So, what I want you to do is rinse out with just that water and spit out in your sink, okay? So, go ahead and get up.
Maybe rinse is rinse for the 10 seconds counting. Do so. Next, I'm going to give you this. Squeeze that in your mouth. It's just water. The whole thing? Yes, in your mouth. You can sit here. We'll give you a little cup. Don't swallow that. Do not swallow that. Have a seat here. Mhm. Mhm. You do that and spit it out. Mhm. And keep swishing for about 30 seconds. Count to 30. And then I want you to spit in there and I'm going to test that. Mhm. Okay. So, spit in there. That was a big moment. We're going to dip this in there, okay? And the little pad on the end is going to tell me how much inflammation you have in your mouth. So, you do this within 90 seconds.
We're well within 90 seconds. And you can see here you have at least moderate maybe higher than moderate rates leukocytes just in your mouth fighting infection all the time. Right. That's good for your body. Okay. What do you want me to do? Now we can do another test. And that's with these natural oxide strips. Made by a different company Berkeley Life.
And there's a little I want you to put on your tongue please sit. Okay, upside down like that? Yeah, just like that. How long? Put that one in your tongue. This piece of pieces. We do that and we'll just get it over. Then we do the same thing. We just check the color. On the side of the bottle? This is to test the nitric oxide you have. Okay. Right? Right.
So as you can see it's not high. Okay. It's not even what you are the target of. It's probably below the threshold. It's between threshold and low. And is that good? No, you want to have quite high nitric oxide. Okay, so I have the opposite of what I was going to have. Yeah. So now we have a goal. We want to change both of those. Right. Okay. So in a couple months after we follow a protocol I want you to come back and do both of these. Okay. Right? Yeah.
And if we're happy with it a lot we test again. Okay. And we'll see if it's been traded in. Okay. Great. Okay. So I'd like to put you on a protocol to see if we can change the bacterial community in your mouth so that we have more good bugs and less of the bad bugs. Right.
Okay. So we specifically want to hit the bad bugs, the pathogenic bugs that could cause things like cancer uh cardiovascular issues, all kinds of inflammation in your body. Right? Right. So I'd like to do this for about 3 months and then reconvene and try and do testing again and see what we come up. Yeah, okay. And also following your general health. And maybe if you can talk to your doctors about it. Yeah, yeah, I'll do it. Right?
Try going for a colonoscopy because we found one of the ones where I and I can cause colorectal cancer. And you've already had a cancer area that's just been treated this year. And um let's let's just uh do this for fun to see if we could get somewhere. Okay. Where do I? So, Lucy, can I just open for a minute? I want you to stick out your tongue so we can see what's on your tongue. The reason I'm doing that is Lucy is low in nitric oxide and there's a coating on her tongue and I just want you to see the coating so that we're going to do a protocol of scraping the tongue and using uh hypochlorous acid to see if we can improve that. That's great. Thank you very much.
Okay, I'm here with Lucy. Lucy just had a cleaning just to get her going. The hygienist commented on her x-rays and her uh bone uh situation because she has a little periodontal disease and there's a little bit of bleeding and there's an opportunity for bacteria to get into her bloodstream that way. So, we want to control that for sure.
So, I'm going to give you a protocol now and it's both for your periodontal disease and it's also for your nitric oxide deficiency. Okay. And we're going to see where it goes from there. Okay. But in the beginning we have to be really strict about it. I'm going to make you do this multiple times a day. Okay. Because bugs grow quickly. Right, okay. Right? So, you can wake up in the morning and clean your mouth perfectly and have breakfast and by the time you get to work you have a whole new community living in your mouth.
So, that's why we're going to do this so frequently cuz we got to beat them at their game kind of thing and become friends with them and make sure the community in your mouth is more friendly than pathogenic because you have these pathogenic ones one it tried almost eliminate. Right. Okay? Like weeds? Just like weeding the garden. Right.
So, just like and so glad you said that. That's cool. Just like weeding the garden, right? We have to weed, we have to plant, and we have to feed. Okay. Right? So, the weeding part is the hypochlorous acid, the tongue scraping, the cleanings, that kind of thing, the hygiene. Yeah. The feed The planting is probiotics. We're going to be giving you some probiotics, right? Okay.
I'm not sure how much the probiotics are what you really need, but what you I do feel you need is the prebiotics. So, the probiotics I'm going to suggest um there's several of them out there. I can give you a list, but I think Nathan Bryan uh makes one that's a lozenge that's from N101. And then there's another one from Berkeley Life that's a lozenge. They also have gum that you can chew. Okay. Right? But, the one from Berkeley Life is a prebiotic. Do you understand the difference between pro and prebiotic? Um I'm I I'm a little foggy, so maybe you can plant. Yes, yeah. And prebiotic is feeding. Is feeding.
So, these So, you're planting the healthy commensal good bacteria in your mouth, but the prebiotic is to get the bacteria, the good guys that are there, and feed them. And with your coating on your tongue, there are layers deep into the grooves of your tongue that stuff can't get to nutrition, right? And that's where bad guys really hide. I see. So, we're going to try to get to them and get them out of there and have a bigger population of the good guys to be Okay.
All right. Okay, we're going to go over a couple protocols. Okay. That is unique for you. So, I'm trying to get at the gum disease through mechanical cleaning, through brushing, but there's certain bacteria that aren't affected by mechanical cleaning and the periodontal pathogens and you've got them. And so, we're going to use hypochlorous acid to irrigate around all your teeth and look for all the hiding spots and get into the deep pockets. So, I'm going to teach you or demonstrate to you what it feels like. Nattie is going to be sucking, but at home you're going to be keeping in your mouth and then swishing it around. Right. Okay.
So, I'm going between the teeth. This is the drain. Are you feeling good now? And then I'm not pushing hard. Mhm. I'm just very gently flowing it between your teeth. And I'm going to both sides. You see how I go from one to the other? I kind of go around the gingival margin. Mhm. And then I switch to the next little area. Mhm. So, the question is when do you do this? Right? Do you do this before you floss or do you do this after you floss? You think after? Mhm. I think that's that makes sense because you dislodge things when you floss and this will bring them out. But, just to let you know the hypochlorous acid will affect my Like you get into it and it breaks it up.
So, then it makes it a little easier to clean your teeth cuz it all loosens it up. And [snorts] I'm going to tell you about the prebiotic that I want you to start using and the probiotic that I want your tongue cleaned. Plus, there's layers and layers of stuff on your tongue, right? Right. And as you scrape it out, you can see what you're getting up with it. Right. A lot of that stuff might come through your nose, by the way. So, when you look at it and you think, "Wow, this looks like, you know, Okay, Lucy, you're back. Yes. And tell me what you've done the last few days. Uh okay, so I have my little dental diary.
Oh, wow, that's great. So, that's one thing you've been keeping a diary. I tried to do that. Yeah, my first day was half a day, so basically just got used to the protocol of just using a lot of rinse, HOCl rinse, before brushing and flossing, brushing, flossing, scraping my tongue, and then lots of HOCl all through that, too, and then after. And then after that, on the first day I did a little rinse basically every hour until bedtime. Um then did the whole For how many hours? Well, um I guess it was probably five five or five hours or something. When did I take this seriously?
Tongue scraping before brushing. And then And And after. Yeah, yeah. That makes sense to that. Yeah, if you do it before, Yeah. it breaks up the biofilm. It allows you to do stuff to come up. Right. And the solution goes down and it actually helps you in cleaning your tongue. It lubricates your tongue. Right, yeah. So, you don't get bleeding and soreness on your tongue like you might otherwise. Right, yeah. So, yeah, I really noticed a lot of bleeding or soreness of your tongue, Uh-huh. The interesting thing is the HOCL helps it heal faster. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. So, have you noticed any changes since you did this? Um it's only been a couple of days. Um, I haven't had any bleeding like when I brush my teeth. Sometimes I get a little bleeding, so I haven't had any since I started this. That's one thing.
That's huge. Um that's the only thing I can really notice right now, I think. You don't feel a difference in your breath at all? Um my my mouth definitely feels different. Yeah, just the tongue scraping thing which I wasn't really doing. I was brushing my tongue before this, but I did not really like excavating, you know, like I really noticed a difference with that.
Can we see your tongue? I I just want Okay, so we still have some work to do. It's way less though than it was. So, I did notice that. Do you notice any difference in the taste of your food? Um I didn't notice I didn't notice it in that way. We're not there yet. Yeah, okay. Now, you had COVID and you lost your Yes, last March. So, that was a year and a half You lost smell, right? Yes, I didn't notice until the maybe 6 months later that I wasn't noticing any smells. So, taste and smell are very closely related.
Let's see as we get this to improve, if you do have any improvement. I'm not saying you will, but I'm very curious. Pay attention, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, I'm really happy today you're here. We're going to actually do a deep cleaning of your teeth, Okay. right? Mhm. So, you've done well to prepare yourself to do that cuz it'll be a lot easier, right? And then right away get on it. Right. When once we get all the hard stuff out, Right. know that there's certain bacteria that cannot be mechanically cleaned off your teeth. Yeah, yeah. Right? You need the rinse. Mhm. Right?
So, all that hard stuff and the debris and stuff will be removed and you're starting out clean, but it's not clean like we used to think that it was like really clean. Still bacteria are harbored there. Okay. And our whole point is to retest you after and see if we've gotten rid of the pathogens. Right. Right? Okay. So, now I want to explain to you why I'm giving you the HOCL and all the things it does for you. So, I actually made this little handout just for you. There's so many things, right? Right. One, it reduces harmful bacteria without harsh chemicals. HOCL helps control the bacteria that contribute to gum disease and bad breath without alcohol, chlorhexidine staining, or strong burning sensations.
Two, it's gentle on your mouth, strong on germs. It's naturally compatible with human tissue. Your white blood cells even produce HOCL as part of your immune defense. So, it is soothing, not irritating, even for sensitive mouths. Three, it supports healthier gums. By controlling bacteria and calming inflammation, HOCL rinsing may help reduce bleeding, tenderness, swelling, and gum irritation as part of periodontal care. Four, it helps with bad breath at the source. Instead of masking odor, HOCL helps reduce the bacteria that produce sulfur compounds responsible for halitosis.
Five, safe for daily and long-term use. Unlike many antiseptic rinses that are meant only for short periods, HOCL can be used regularly. Six, non-toxic and alcohol-free. No burning, no harsh taste, no drying of the mouth. It's suitable for children, elderly patients, medically fragile patients, and those who can't tolerate regular mouthwash.
Seven, it can be helpful for people at higher risk. Beneficial for diabetics, patients with gum disease, orthodontic patients, dry mouth sufferers, people with recurring infections, people unable to brush effectively. Eight, it's environmentally and chemically simple. HOCL is created from salt, water, and electricity. It leaves no chemical residue and breaks down safely.
So, I'll just do it one more time, I'll just do it really quickly. Rinsing with HOCL before um doing my teeth protocol then the first thing I do is I scrape my tongue and then I syringe the tongue with the in between the crevices. Brilliant. And then I do a quick floss. Then I brush my teeth. Then I did another HOCL rinse and flossed again just to see if I always catch something the second time around and then another HOCL just to finish so that it's still in my mouth after I'm done. So if you're going to do a second HOCL Yeah.
Take that same syringe. Yeah. And squirt it up if I do that too. I didn't say that but I did that. And then gargle with it. Yes, I do a lot of gargling too. Yeah. You're my star. Honestly thrilled with you. Yeah, and so yeah, I'm I'm it's you know, I was a little worried that the HOCL is doing it hourly and stuff. It's not a big deal. I have a little bit on my desk and I just do a little You know, it's not that you know, disruptive in my day.
That's great. That rinse thing. Yeah. So yeah, doing a lot more flossing and brushing three times a day and doing this whole protocol after every meal. And the bleeding is No bleeding in the last two and a half days since I did Yeah, and it's just three days to get you to that point and you haven't even had your teeth cleaned. So let's get your teeth cleaned and see how much they bleed.
Okay. So we were just talking about nitric oxide. Right. And you mentioned and I I said in order for this whole system to produce nitric oxide you need a clean tongue. You need good commensal bacteria that will change nitrates to nitrites, send them down to your stomach which has to be acid. So you need saliva in your mouth.
Yeah. Lots of it. So you mouth tape so you don't have a dry mouth. Your body will send this down to your stomach but it needs to be an acid stomach in order to produce nitric oxide and send it back into your mouth. Right. So now I had an ulcer 13 years ago and that was due to an overproduction of acid in my stomach. So I've been on pantoprazole for 13 years. Which is the purpose of that? Which reduces the acid in my stomach. Exactly.
So I guess I don't think there's zero acid in there, but there's a reduced acid or there's something that's working against acid production. And exactly. And so how much is that going to affect your nitric oxide production? We don't know, but if we go through all of this and then we measure your nitric oxide again and it's still really low. Right. Right?
Then we go back to your physician and we we say we're we're controlling things in your body now, so you shouldn't get in another ulcer kind of thing and you shouldn't have too much acid, but we can watch that and can we reduce your medication to allow you to produce nitric oxide? Right. I think right now I'm on the lowest dose as far as I know, but we can recheck that with the doctor. Yeah. Well, that's really interesting. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah.
So Pro Gaya is a prebiotic for the mouth. Is that right? Or no? It's a probiotic. Probiotics. Right? And do you know the difference between pro and pre? Um you can remind me. Yeah, I can. Prebiotics feed the probiotics. No, no. Prebiotic feeds the bacteria to make them happy or healthier. It's like feeding your garden. Right. Right? Okay, so pre So this is Probiotic is like putting new plants in the garden. Right. Right? Okay. To help keep the weeds down. Right. Okay. Right? So taking a prebiotic is generally my preferred way of building up your microbiome. Right, from the ground.
Because you use them on your own and you're helping them out. And diet plays a huge part in it, right? Greens, beets, Yeah. anything high in fiber. more. I drink beet juice every day. Okay. Who knew I would ever say that aloud? That will do it. And lots more vegetables. Uh yeah, lots of water. We got to get your stomach a little better, too. Is your stomach getting better or not? I'm taking medication to keep the acid down. It's an ongoing thing.
I've been on it for 12-13 years. So that won't work as long as you don't have an acid stomach. All this stuff, all the money you're putting into it, you need the bacteria, but you also need an acid stomach, and you need a lot of saliva. You need to be swallowing. Right.
It's a whole system to make the nitric oxide. It's not just your bacteria that makes it. First, it goes down into your stomach, and then you have to have an acid stomach, and then it actually eventually gets recycled back to your saliva. Okay. Right? So, after it goes through your kidneys, it's a whole story. So, it's not just one thing. So, if I'm taking this pantoprazole that I'm taking Okay, fine. If you have to take that, do what your doctor says. I'm not going to tell you not to, but I'm going to suggest you take some apple cider vinegar before you eat. Sure. Like a spoon of apple cider vinegar. Okay.
It's not the most pleasant thing, and rinse out your mouth so it doesn't affect your teeth, right? But I want your stomach acid. Okay. And so, I mean, there is some stomach acid in there. It's just greatly reduced because of the medication I'm taking, right? So, you probably take medication cuz it's coming back up at you. Because yeah. Right? So, it's getting into your throat, and it's irritating you. Yeah. It's not that it's acid in your stomach that's Yeah, I also had an ulcer, and I don't know. I think they were connected somehow. I'm not sure. Maybe, but it's also be related to your stomach microbiome. Okay. Right?
ou could have some bad bacteria in there that could cause that too. Right. Okay. So, it's not necessarily just too acid in the stomach kind of thing. It's unusual. Okay. Okay. So much so. Yeah. So, if we can do that and and I don't want to go against your doctor's orders. I I want you I'd like to get off it somehow, but I don't Try this and see if it works. That And if you go online, you can find people talking about it, right? I'm sure. So, we want to get prebiotic going in just like a daily something. Yeah, I'm not telling you to take a medication necessarily. Mhm. Al- although even uh things like xylitol
Okay, yeah. prebiotics if your stomach can handle it. Okay. Mine can't. But a lot of people can. Okay, I'll find out. That's in xylitol, erythritol, that kind of thing. But you have to have a certain amount of it per day. Oh, so I'll have to check that out. I'm not spelling it right, but Um yeah, that's in this product um that I showed you. The xylitol? I think so. Is it in this one? Maybe not this one. There was another one, but they're so expensive. Oh my god. This one has xylitol, isomalt, xylitol. It's one of the first things in there, so you know that that's what they're using. Right. I thought that was just like flavoring. Yeah, no, xylitol is uh a five-carbon sugar.
Oh, okay. sugar alcohol. So, is it? Let me think. It's that thing that can't break it down the same way that it can break down a uh and our sugar. Can't break Okay. The bacteria that will help you produce the nitric oxide. Yeah, see this is what this is. It looks very expensive. It looks good, but I'm And this is the one that's got the xylitol. a different way. Yeah. It's just so, take a teaspoon of xylitol. Talk about [laughter] it. I don't know. Okay.
No, I'm sure they're good products. There's lots of good products on the market. I just have to have to get a good one. but it's hard to say if they're actually getting you where you have to go. Yeah. Okay. I want to ask you how your gums are doing today, too. I haven't had any bleeding since I started. How often do you use it now? Honestly, I still use it every 2-3 hours. Oh, seriously?
And I scrape my tongue like 2-3 times a day. Ooh, I'm glad I came in. Well, good. Because I just there, I feel like I'm on a learning curve, and my questions lead to more questions. We all are. That's why I wanted to see you so much. Yeah, yeah. Okay, good. Thank you. Overall, the last sort of month or so, I think it's been going pretty well. I'm trying to be regular with all the things I'm supposed to do. Uh but this weekend, I had a couple of events that I went to where I had some alcohol. And uh I noticed, I don't know if it's, you know, directly connected, but when I take the the mouthwash
And then scrape. Yeah, and then scrape, usually my I have more taste sensation. But I didn't this I didn't yesterday and today. You couldn't taste the mouthwash? I couldn't taste the mouthwash. Well, I it it Yeah, I couldn't taste the mouthwash. That's interesting. Yeah. But but that's what I noticed when I started taking it initially, I started getting taste sensation back. Um but then when I had couple of fun nights with a couple of drinks on two nights, then I So, I will ask in the very beginning when you had the coating on your tongue I couldn't really taste taste Yeah, I don't I don't know that I couldn't taste, but then when I started taking the hypochloric and the and the tongue scraping Cloris, yeah.
So, I just found that very interesting that I think that feels like there's a connection between the taste buds and what I was, you know, I'm in my body, you know? Uh, I was very tired yesterday, too. That was after the two events and Yeah, and so now I'm noticing a difference in my mouth a little bit. Will it come back to normal? Uh the taste? Yes. No, not yet. Oh, really? Yeah, it's been a day and two days.
Two days. So, we're just going to I'm back to it. I'm back on it. Yeah. today? There's a bit of a white coating on it. Did a lot come off your tongue when you scraped it? Yeah. Uh not as much as it usually does, you know, but uh but yeah, there's definitely been lately in the last month or 6 weeks when I scrape my tongue, most of it comes off. It doesn't all come off, but most of it does.
And then I do the mouthwash and now I've got the lozenges, which I notice make a big difference. To your health or to your tongue? To my tongue and my taste. Yeah. Those are the things I'm just noticing. Yeah, initially. How often do you take the lozenges? Well, I've only done it. I've only had it for about a week. I've only purchased them like a week and a half ago. Uh-huh. And I've gone through a package and I started off with just one a day or two a day cuz I wasn't sure if like the caution things that it might burn your mouth and things like that. So, I just started with that, but I have gone up to maybe three a day, but then they go in a hurry. They're very expensive.
Yeah, they are. They're kind of a little bit prohibitive. That's what I do. I cut them in half. I don't take that whole thing. I do that's what I've been doing. Yeah. So, I'll cut it in half and have a half and then a little. Yeah, more often so that it's still always present on my tongue during the day as much as possible. And do you have any rules about when you do it? Um I try not to. I just try to do it when I know that I'm not going to be eating or drinking anything in the you know. So, this is the nitric oxide test. So, the same company that makes your lozenges, this company, it's Berkeley Life. And it's a very simple test.
All you do is place that on your tongue and we fold it over. So, you haven't had anything to eat for the last little bit? I had coffee this morning. That's it? Yeah, I think so. So, saliva here. So, we put that on your tongue. That part of it. Kind of close your mouth on it. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to count 10 seconds for me. Okay. So, it looks Oh! Is that me? Woah! Yes. Really? Yes. Now, we're getting somewhere. Yes. So, that means I've got lots and lots of good stuff on my tongue. Oh my gosh. got the nitric oxide going. Look at that. Wow. Amazing. Wow. Right?
You've got to feel better. Yeah. It affects your cardiovascular system. Your blood vessels get dilated. Right. Right. let's check on the leukocytes in your mouth to see how much What I want you to do is this is water. It's a measured amount. I I want you to swish this in your mouth. I want you to swish it for 15 seconds. Okay. Probably about 15 seconds. Okay. Now, we want this one to be lighter. Okay. Right? And it's going to be the other one to be Darker. Darker. Okay. Right. This is measuring leukocyte activity in your mouth. Leukocytes come in at the times of inflammation, right? And leukocytes actually bring in HOCL.
Oh, okay. Right? Oh, I see. So, you have been kind of fighting whatever was going on in your mouth with the HOCL and the HOCL modulates your microbiome, your oral microbiome. Without harming the pellicle on your teeth. So, it works on the bacteria of your teeth. It mainly hurts the bad bacteria of your teeth, not the good ones, and it doesn't harm the pellicle, which you need on your teeth. Okay. And so is that a minute? minute, and you're supposed to measure it right away. Make me Yeah, but I'd say it's uh between low and moderate. It's right in there. Okay. So, you got to measure it right at a minute. 1 minute. And you can't go over 90 seconds.
Right. Okay. So, you still have some something going on in your mouth, some not so great bugs. Right. Right? That could cause inflammation in your body. Right? But your nitric oxide is so much better, so you know that you've eliminated some of the very bad Right. stuff on your tongue, so good bacteria has a chance. Yeah. Mhm. So yeah. I'm really happy about I'm I Well, it's kind of amazing that you know that it's possible to do. You know, just with me just doing a routine at home and uh making a change happen, you know?
Do you understand what nitric oxide is all about and why you need it and what it should be doing for you? I think so, yeah. Yeah. Um and that it's different than what's happening in my gut, right? And your gut is completely related. Yeah. Completely related. Right. So, that's You swallow 2,000 times a day. All that bacteria that's in your saliva is going to go into your stomach. Right, right. But if you have bleeding gums, it also goes in through your blood supply. Oh, I see. And if you have an abscess on a tooth, it also goes in through your trigeminal nerve straight up to your brain, and you get inflammation right. that way. Wow. So, you have to keep your mouth really right.
Well, I've definitely I've upped my game on the on the oral hygiene. Like, it's just night and day in terms of what I was doing say in the summertime versus now. Like, I'm all over it all the time. [laughter] You You've seen a huge improvement. Yeah. But, the fact that your tongue coating has changed and that your ability to taste food now Yeah, that's crazy. much better. Yeah. And the question is the alcoholic drinks that you had last night or on the weekend Yeah. did they wipe out your good bacteria?
Well, they reduced my taste. It reduced my taste. Like, Yeah, yesterday. These tests might have been affected by the alcohol. Yeah. So, can you imagine what an alcohol mouthwash does to you if you do it twice a day or three times a day? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. It really is amazing. Yeah.
People have to know about that. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. You just mentioned that you're on uh approaching constant inhaler. It's pantoprazole. I take 40 mg a day. And do you know the purpose in that? Um yeah, I had an ulcer 13 14 years ago and uh and was diagnosed with uh esophagitis eosinophilic esophagitis. Um and it was due to um stomach acid, you know, these coming up regularly. And so, I was given this and I've been taking it every day for 14 years.
And what does that usually do to your stomach? Well, it stops from Well, what it does for me is I stop the acid from It's acid reflux sort of from coming up into the But, I don't know if it reduces the acid or if it just stops it Less acid. Exactly. Less acid. Yeah, so here's the prob- the way I see it, okay? You need an acid stomach to produce nitric oxide from the mouth, right? Not the enteric system, but as you get older, you make more of your nitric oxide in your mouth. You need good commensal bacteria that can convert it to nitric oxide. You need a lot of saliva so you can swallow it. You need the right food in your diet that you could provide the nitrates and you need an acid stomach for all this to happen.
Right. Okay. So if one of those things is off, you don't get the nitric oxide you need. Right. So if I have I'm going to be seeing my doctor soon and checking in about that pantoprazole. Um and if I ever had to or was able to stop taking it, what do you imagine would be the effect? I know from your perspective that I would want to know why you're bringing acid up. Do you have a a leaky valve or are you producing negative pressure at night when you're sleeping? And for most people it would be the negative pressure when you sleep.
That kind of thing. You know, when you're kind of snoring. Right? That brings up the acid that causes the inflammation. And wreaks havoc with us. That's how you get the chronic sinusitis and the sore throat every morning and the bad breath in the morning. Mhm. And so you want to know the underlying cause and it could be a sleep disorder. Right. Right. Right. So you can't really fix it until you fix the underlying reason why you have it there. Right.
So but the other thing is in the meantime stay on your medication that your doctor prescribed. But I've suggested to people to use apple cider vinegar before they eat to produce some acidity in their stomach to allow this process of the uh nitric oxide to be produced. Right. Right. And I think you should try that, right?
Yeah, I I was being pretty regular about it for a while but the last few weeks I've forgotten about it. So yeah. It's a good reminder to get back on again. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm doing but I'm being pretty good about all the other things. I'm beet juice every day. Although sometimes it's every other day. I've got Have you had a sleep study? Um no. No, I haven't. Well, do the job cuz that could be the underlying issue. I mean, it could be. I I mean, I definitely have been sleeping so much better since the spring, you know. And last year, you know, I stopped there was more alcohol use last year and I stopped that last year and that made a big difference in my sleep habits. But then for sure. Yeah. So, I'm sure.
I don't know the best place to go to bed. If you have a drink before you go to bed, right? You lose tone in your airway and it'll close more easily. Yeah. So, so things were happening last year that aren't happening this year. And I sleep so much better than last year. So, you're going to go back to your position and revisit this whole
Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to just check in on all of the things. And there's No, I'll let her meet us here. You can take this knowledge to your doctor. Yeah. I'll say hey. Yeah. Yeah, I'd love to see if not having pantoprazole would be part of my future. I just don't know how to determine if that would be something that you could do. But maybe if there's, you know, changes that happen here.
With your doctor's permission Yeah. go off it for a short period of time and maybe we can understand that. Yeah. Like I've I I I'm pretty religious about taking it every single day, but I think there was one time when maybe last year I missed a day and I did notice. This was last year. Yeah, and I didn't notice it by the end of the day. I was Then I was Oh, well, that was last year. I really want you to go to sleep study. Yeah. Yeah, at Kenworth, right? Oh, yeah, for sure.